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Sunday, 13 June 2010

Sad days for all

Reading the comments on Twitter over the last few days,although not entirely unexpected, has left me with an incredible amount of sadness. And not an insufficient amount of contempt for some people. What we have all held dear since the moment we signed up to OldnRubbish has slowly been eradicated. I have only been a member of O&R since February 2009, so I can only imagine that the decisions made by some O&R members over the last few days has been even harder than my own decision to leave. In those 16 months I posted as much as anyone on that site. 3500+ posts (not including the posts I deleted while keeping my various sections clean). I loved the place because everyone gamed on there to have a laugh, win a few games and find people who weren't in it to pamper their own KDRs at the expense of less experienced or skilled players

The trouble began in earnest when Modern Warfare 2 came out. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not blaming the breakdown within O&R on MW2. Just hear me out on my own theory. We have a huge COD following on O&R and a lot of those players are fecking good at it. That is great for the game as those players could help the lesser players to learn the game, pick up pointers and the like. The trouble, in my eyes, came from the sheer number of O&R players using the O&R clan tag. When you carry that tag, you will get noticed. When 60-70 players are running with it, it becomes a beacon. I know this from my time in MAG. We have a good group of players on there and I have, on many occasions, heard people compliment our group. "Great, we have O&R with us, these guys are good" and stuff like that. It is fantastic to hear. Not because we are good at the game, but because we are good as a collective. As a result I have had no end of people PM me after a game asking to join my clan. That happens with just a core group of about 16 of us. Multiply that by at least 5 and you get the sort of attraction people see for MW2/O&R

As a result I think a lot of people got attracted to O&R thinking it was an elite gaming clan, rather than a community set up for friendly gaming nights. This, in my opinion, lead to a lot of people signing up and not understanding the absolutely essential, fundamental ethos of O&R. I don't care that these people came in with a KDR of 23-1, that only helps the other O&R players when they go up against The Unwashed. What I do care about is the mentality of someone with a KDR of 23-1. Do they really understand what it is like to be old and rubbish? Save that bullshit for the official forums where you can also go insult someone's mother about how shit she is at giving head when you pick her up drunk from the local bar. That attitude doesn't belong in O&R. Or, if it does, I don't belong in O&R

It brought the whole "death squad" nonsense to the fore. Seriously, how on earth can anyone with the O&R ethics ingrained in their psyche think, even for 0.01875 seconds, that putting the best 6-8 O&R in a team together and ask other old and RUBBISH players to challenge them would help maintain the peace and good natured fun? Then there was the unbelievable instances where people were accusing fellow O&R members of cheating. I have never thought anyone I game with on O&R was a cheat, I have read too many posts from people who berate those who cross the line. To accuse one of your own of doing this to win a "friendly" competition is simply inexcusable. If I had been accused of this, the thread wouldn't have just been locked.....it would have resulted in an instant ban because I would have gone nuts. My integrity is so dear to me, and from what I can see of our members, dear to them. If I hadn't effectively been warned never to post on the MW2 section (sadly I did receive this warning) I would have said something to all those who were accusing/counter accusing because to question the honesty of one of our group means an accusatory finger is pointed at all of us.

After my warnings I lost a lot of the love for the site. Mainly because it was a fellow O&R member who reported me for my views on the game. To see so many other people losing that love is a terrible scene. I wouldn't give a flying fuck if it was the new members leaving under a cloud of disillusionment but unfortunately it is the valued older members who are jumping ship. They see they changes in the site. The newer members still think it is grand because all they compare our place to is the Other Place.

I am not going to miss the site while the site remains in its current rut. I am truly grateful for every single moment I spent gaming with the people on there. I loved every second of being in Dublin getting drunk with them. I loved meet everyone (briefly) at Alton Towers. I got to watch Arsenal a couple of times thanks to one member, got to join another at a Pearl Jam concert. All memories I will cherish. Thankfully most of the people who I game with are on my Twitter account and on my PS3 friends list. I can keep in touch, want to keep in touch. Providing this doesn't change I will still continue to be O&R. In Spirit if nothing else

I really hope the powers-that-be can turn things around at O&R. I won't be returning, and in the grand scheme of things I am a relatively new member so will not be missed as much as someone like Bert, ST6 or Duca/gixa. But there are people out there who will love the PS3 like us, who do not yet know they are oldnrubbish. It would be a terrible shame for those people to not have O&R to discover. I know if I had never found it I would probably have never played any of my games online

10 comments:

  1. Ok, makes a lot of sense young Givo. I never liked this 'Death Squad' thing and remember saying so at the time, that tag has no place in what was always called a 'family oriented' gaming site. MW2 definitely bought in a type of player that wouldn't understand the o&r ethos and that is echoed and very visible in some of their comments?
    Like you say, there are plenty of competitive clans out there that cater exactly for these people to go to and in honesty, any o&r that wants to play that way, without regard for their fellow o&r can go and play elsewhere.

    Let's see want the next few weeks bring, maybe we can tempt you back, even if it is only to the MAG section ;)

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  2. good write up Greg, sad but true...
    I want to actually think there's some hope you might return to us sometime in the future.
    Now is certainly not the best time hehehe, with all that's going on, but i always tell myself in difficult times "it cant be worse than this"...
    maybe we all (mods and members) needed a big kick in the teeth, to realise what we built is on the verge of disappearing... and start acting ALL TOGETHER, not one against another, to try and make OnR what it used to be.
    Peace my friend !
    Kamal aka Pico

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  3. You hit nail on head Givo :)

    Its steadily got worse unfortunetly over time.

    I think the worst thing that ever happened to ONR was the competative nights and inhouse matches against each other. When all that started it created a divide and a nasty unhealthy competative streak in some. Its also honestly nuts to stop people from playing with each other in ONR by saying you cant come in as where in a match when theirs room.

    Ive always been the same and as someone mentioned before as a prime example is Motorstorm PR. Health took its toll and I had to step back but we had the perfect balance for a great time.

    Unfortunetly Im good at alot of games especially racers and on PR the first night I joined the guys I was nearly lapping people. Everyone that knows me knows I help anyone and will quite happily get shot in a game or never win again to show how I win. Same with fighters will show you moves and let you hit me all night.

    So I started taking everyone around with me to show them the best routes and vehicles and so on and we did this for awhile each week. Everyone learnt and there was no elitism and we had some great nights due to this instead of people getting fed up and leaving as everyone else is too good and going off. It made it more fun because everyone becomes more friendly with each other and you all know your their to help and show the way.

    Thats what ONR was when I joined. You had friendly games with each other. You NEVER locked rooms and said to people from ONR you cannot come in. They where always open all night and drop in and drop out. If it got full say 12 in a room and 1 more wanted to come in you split the rooms up to make it fair.

    Certain groups tho have gone against this friendly atmosphere and its destroyed the happy atmosphere as it became competiton and if people cant get in on that night it members and they leave onr which alot have in past.

    WHen you do inhouse matches you cause arguments. People never see eye to eye sometimes and then the back biting starts and thats when the storm decends.

    ONR was a community site for gamers to play with each other it was never a clan when i joined and its become a clan. If you want to be in a clan the first rule is this you dont play against each other you play against other clans. Why? Because you argue with each other! If you want to be in a clan set one up and go fight others with gamebattles.

    Thats the point for me it should always be ONR against the rest as a united front. All your friends together noone ever singled out and if your in charge of a game you make bloody well sure you let everyone in that wants to play and show them how to play it and help them if their not doing good.

    I just hope ONR goes back to this as when it was like that it was a bloody good site :)

    Dazzyman

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  4. As for the mod situation. ITs what I said and got banned for. If your a mod you cant get involved in a topic and then ban people in that topic its an abuse of power. You have to be impartial as a mod thats the point of it. If people are talking let them if someone comes to you as a mod and says I have issues with that post then of course PM that member and warn them IF you think their out of line. When you get involved in posting and argue then of course people are going to react. If a mod has issues with what you post as you get on their nerves then they should never be anywhere near that thread because anything that member says winds them up. You just have to take what happened with me for that. Someone trolling needlessly to everyone esle and accusing us all of lying etc.. and I got the warnings as the mod had issues with us.

    Its a choice you take when you become a mod with powers to kick and edit or delete. You have to take a step back and if your the one involved in the arguing you make sure another mod deals with it impartially otherwise your just bullying.

    Same with putting stuff on a portal its bullying. You give a warning via PM usually up to 3 times and mkae notes via admin what they never see then issue a ban. You do it quietly and you dont tell other members. If you do your singling people out and bullying.

    Until issues like that are stopped and the structure altered then more people will leave and more will get bullied by certain mods.

    Peace to all
    Darren aka Dazzyman

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  5. Just keeping MAG warm till you get back. Well written, thought provoking and compelling.

    See you in game

    Dan

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  6. Well written. I just hope the changes being mentioned sort it out. MW2 has a lot to answer for. In the meantime keep Twittering.

    RoosterBooster

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  7. Hi Givo, tbh not sure what to say, a few times i've given my crystel ball a cursory glance and saw bad days ahead for onr, tried choices from ignoring it to saying something. Usualy no matter which i did i regreted that course of action.

    I only recently started posting again there, and, with a resounding clang of inevitibility (i just KNOW thats spelt wrong!) i again regretted it.

    I hope you keep me on your friends list even tho we havent teamed for a while, you were an amazing team leader & mod in MAG and i hope our paths cross again.

    Take care m8, MM

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  8. Sorry, but I disagree, yes things changed on O&R but blaming MW2 and the Death Squad oversimplifies it, most of the so called DS were veteran O&R who simply played together regularly and none of them to a man have been involved in any of the recent slanging matches.

    O&R had competitive in house matches long before MW2, before W@W even and it never degenerated into what we have now.

    The problem is two fold in my opinion, the size of the site, loads more members than in the so called good old days, this shear number dilutes the relationships that can be formed and as a direct consequence people are not as 'friendly' as they have less of a direct relationship with people.

    This then leads to the second part of the problem when people don't have the relationship they are often less tolerant of others views or simply do not understand the context in which they were posted leading to arguments and discontent.

    The MODs aren't typical MODs, on other forums they simply act as a forum police here they have joined as members and are part of the community, they are simply trying to stop the decline, go easy on 'em, they may not always make the right call but they aren't acting out of spite.

    All of us just need to grow up a little and wind our necks in a bit, we say we love it but we're fanning the flames.

    Gary

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  9. What a load of rubbish,from what i remember it was you who caused most of the trouble,simply because you didnt like the game..

    Remember onr is a gaming website and wasn't just for you to criticise and say what games people play,dont play..

    Show a bit more positivity,instead of sounding like a grumpy old man all the time.

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  10. I simply voiced an opinion about the game and took the piss out of the people who cried like girls when the game didn't work, as I predicted. I don't remember me being the one who wanted to glitch to make videos, nor was I the one who wanted to start an elitist death squad. I never posted a single comment slagging off another member and trying to start a fight over the team tournament that Mr Zero set up.

    And I have never tried to tell people what games to play or not play, you are so misinformed with your views I am sorry to say. I stopped posting on O&R about two months before the powers that be took the step to close the sight. Did my words have such resonance on the site that the ramifications of them closed the site long after I had stopped being active? Incidentally, once one of the O&R "family" reported me to the Mods resulting in me getting a warning I didn't post anything else in the COD section. That person, like you, didn't have the balls to identify themself to me. That is the kind of sly backstabbing bullshit that I am NOT missing about the site. Do you honestly think it was me, rather than the game that brought out all that spiteful, nasty ill feeling? Delusional and misinformed.

    I know you haven't got the back bone to identify yourself, doesn't matter to me. I have a feeling I know who you are and your comments haven't surprised me, apart from the length of time it took you to have your say.

    Thanks for posting, whether you agree with me or not

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